could imagine but I am guessing...

[den_mark_98]

Recently,
I have been out searching the net to read a bit about what is said about U2 and it is ridiculous. Besides the mistake with the tickets, which they seemed to get right in Copenhagen because I know people in their fan club that got tickets and I went the normal route and didn't get any.

I want to say: COME ON NOW!

First, U2 is commercialized. U2 is a big money making machine and to deny that that exsists or even to be so naive to think that U2 is not affected by this because they didn't do events in the past(Grammys, etc.) is ridiculuous.(that is part of the game..go and u sell out, don't go and you have integrity...go figure) So they are in it to make money and that is good. Hell, POP was much more over the edge in terms of commercialization and many people thought that U2 was done for after that album(I love it).

Second, File Sharing. I am not happy that I can't access U2 lyrics but don't blame it on U2. Blame it on the file sharing people. I know a bit about copyright law and U2 has maybe instructed their label to be thorough in applying the copyright laws to all works by U2. This is how they make their bread and butter. If you want their lyrcis go buy them.

I mean come on you can't openly quote the bible for more than so many lines or it is copyright infringement to the company that translates and prints that version of the Bible.

Atleast U2 is trying to come in the new age of technology and offering a legal way to receive their goods. Maybe not the best way but it is smart.

Third, U2 never sells out. I can remember when Achtung Baby 1991 hit the stores and people complained that it wasn't The Joshua Tree or anything like it. Personally, I enjoy their growth and variety; i think the new album is as rich and full of quality as any U2 CD I have ever heard. U2 changes and I enjoy that they never give me "another U2 album"

Last, and I hope I am not preaching. Take it as it comes. I take each song at face value, each album, each encounter. What do you expect? If U2 can enter the belly of the beast(commercialization) and come out alive then it is like St. George killing the dragon.

Try to see through the smoke and mirrors. This is nothing new, only a new album and new way of promoting themselves.

thanks for listening

Patrick

[Between Two Worlds]

Patrick, you're right in many ways. I myself don't mind U2 being a business and a brand name. Indeed, I sometimes wish it was a better run business and a better managed brand. Hence I am not so sure about the lyrics. The "official" ones are freely available at u2.com, so where is the harm in allowing fan sites to publish and discuss what people actually hear when they listen to U2? I very much doubt that more lyrics are sold as a result of shutting down lyrics on fan sites and the aggravation caused does harm to the brand...
(As I understand it, the reason why some U2 fans are not too enthusiastic about HTDAAB is precisely because to them it is "another U2 album" with not enough transformation - so the situation is quite different from the time when U2 lost fans because they had not produced another Joshua Tree -  just a thought, I personally like HTDAAB.)

[den_mark_98]

thanks...i can't image that anyone heard the new album and said EXACTLY what I expected.

POP and Zooropa are in the same vein but so is
All That You Can't Leave Beind and their current release.

I like the new album and for some reason I always do, then again I am more forgiving then most.

Patrick

[Edited on 2005-2-16 by den_mark_98]

[Carl]

Originally posted by den_mark_98
Second, File Sharing. I am not happy that I can't access U2 lyrics but don't blame it on U2. Blame it on the file sharing people. I know a bit about copyright law and U2 has maybe instructed their label to be thorough in applying the copyright laws to all works by U2. This is how they make their bread and butter. If you want their lyrcis go buy them.

The file sharing thing comment I don't think is valid at all.  ATYCLB hit the net on p2p networks and nothing happened. Piracy has been around for years, and PM has known about this site for years as well. Furthermore u2.com offers up free lyrics (though of course not all lyrics, you don't know how amusing/frustrating it is to get e-mails from u2.com e-mail addresses asking for lyrics that used to be up here and aren't \on u2.com). What harm is there in them being on fan sites?

If it was about profit etc Principle Management wouldn't have just told Universal to target 4 major fan sites, they would have gone after all the ad based lyrics365.net kind of stuff out there.  Why just threaten a few major fan sites - hell we had PM on the phone thanking us for the discography scans that were used for the iTunes Box Set (and they won't say a word to us now).  The only reason I can think of would be to drive up traffic to u2.com... have the hardcore fans go to the site more and perhaps you'll get more $40 memberships.  It just doesn't make sense.  And if Universal has a policy for licensing fan sites, why is it taking more than 2.5 months to hammer out the details with PM?? I mean really, perhaps do we make money, do we provide credit for them, etc.  Sure U2 is a money making machine, but there are different ways to make money.  

I'm not sure if this is from the band, though I'm sure they'd have to be aware of it by now.  We've held back from going "public" because we don't want to ruin the licensing process currently in place, but it's beginning to feel like smoke and mirrors... keep us quiet until after the album / tour / stuff.  Who knows.  Perhaps we need to talk to some reporters for it register on the band's radar so they can talk to PM about it.

[Brad]

I have a sneaking suspicion that PM knows that the lyrics section at U2.com is inaccurate and incomplete, and that they wanted to shut down sites with better lyrics sections to draw more traffic to the official site.

That way they sell more memberships, t-shirts, etc.

It's certainly possible that they're just stalling until after all the ticket pre-sales, because they aren't going to sell too many memberships after that anyway.

[Between Two Worlds]

I am pretty sure Carl and Brad are right and hence I was wrong: there is money to be made from forcing fan sites (as opposed to generic sites) to remove lyrics. I probably forgot about that because for me the action had the opposite effect.

In my mind I had made the link between the threat of legal action against fan sites and the re-launching of U2.com and for me this was another good reason not to sign up to become a member at U2.com, the price tag being another pretty good reason (except that I panicked when I saw that only one date was given for London and signed up last minute to participate in the pre-sale, the less said the better).

[den_mark_98]

that the U2.com is outsourced and that with all the current problems that they are having is biting the members of U2 in the ass, hard, right now. BUT I will say that for all the good things on the internet and all that we use it for it is still rather NEW and they are better off embracing it then ignoring it or going at it half heartily...which maybe they are.

If it is outsource then it is in the that companies best interest to milk potential customers for whatever they can get. Maybe they make a percentage of all the money created off the site. Then you can there is an evil cycle at work there.

It is not perfect and frankly nothing is perfect...I will bear with it.

Patrick

[Carl]

U2.com *is* done by a mass fansite company - in their defense the site actually seems to be having more actual exclusives and useful content than they did with the old interface.

Universal Publishing threatening fan sites at the behest of Principle Management is not due to "outsourcing."  And I highly doubt it took place at the lower levels of PM.  Even though it was four years of (on and off) work pulled I try to stay pretty objective when talking about it publicly, but I'm not going to make excuses for them.

@BTW - I was going to sign up on U2.com and put it off a few days after getting my prop discount card due to a paycheck coming in late.  Shortly thereafter I got the letter from Universal Publishing - it pretty much turned me off from supporting the site.  I definately think different people will react in different ways, for people not that into lyrics or who don't feel a strong negative reaction will just hang around the official site more.

[Edited on 2005-2-16 by Carl]

[slaneman]

"  I definately think different people will react in different ways, for people not that into lyrics or who don't feel a strong negative reaction will just hang around the official site more".

How true. The "Lyrics" petition at @U2 is a good example.
If a tree falls in the forest...
It's apparently not a big deal to most fans.

 One can imagine that soon the lyrics at U2.com will only be accessible to paid members. But even if they keep them free, it's an axiom of retail that you do whatever you need to do to get people in the store. Once there, even a small percentage making impulse purchases increases your cash flow. It's standard business practice. Granted, of course, your goal is dough, not soul.

 My wife has worked in a music store that specializes in sheet music for 30 yrs. They do classical, popular, and band music scores, parts and sheet. They have accounts with all the schools, military bands, and churches in the DC area. It's a big business. They have not seen any drop in business since the rise of the internet, despite the easy access online to any song imaginable. Bands and churches need scores, not lyrics. The thing they're worried about is that some publishers are beginning to offer official downloads direct to the customer, thus avoiding the need to go to her store. A la Amazon. Presently this requires a lot of specialized software.

I have no idea how much U2 makes from sheet music sales, guitar books, Edge tablatures, album songbooks, etc. If the publishers thought they were bleeding it would make sense to knock *all* sites off and charge at U2.com. They may ultimately do this.